French Canadian Research: The importance of godparents and notarial records

Still reading through the actual Quebec Catholic Church records that link the generations. I'm focusing on lines that go back to Parisian origins. I have copied hundreds of supposed ancestors from PRDH. I have not read through every document for the 200 or more ancestors I've found at PRDH. I have been slowly reviewing these records. I've posted copies of the documents for some of my lines on this blog before. I'm focusing on those with Parisian links since I just returned from Paris.

Today my target line is Lambert. My goal is to prove fille du roi Elisabeth Aubert is a direct ancestor.  She was also a Parisian before migrating to Quebec. Like Catherine Clerice her family lived in the St-Sulpice Parish. She is also an ancestor of Aurelie Lambert.

Now I begin with Aurelie Lambert once again.

Looking at Aurelie's parents' marriage document we see that her parents were Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron who married 15 August 1808 in Yamachiche This time following the Lambert line back we focus on the parents of Joseph Lambert. In order to take the Lambert line back we need his parents marriage record to get Aurelie Lambert's grandparents' names.

I was able to find an original marriage record for Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron. Joseph Lambert's parents names are given as Joseph Lambert and Antoinette Lami, according to the marriage record. I searched for their marriage record. I couldn't find one for them. Already we hit a brickwall.  There are family members listed on the Lambert/Ferron marriage document. According to the document Joseph had a brother named Augustin Lambert, and an uncle named Gervais Lambert. I found an Augustin Lambert who married an Angelique Dessert in Louiseville, Quebec. Louiseville borders Yamachiche. This Augustin's parents are Joseph Lambert and Madeleine Lamy, not Antoinette Lamy. Augustin Lambert and Angelique Dessert married on 1 September 1806. Both of his parents are said to be dead. Both of my ancestor Joseph's parents are said to be dead when he married in 1808. Sounds like Antoinette isn't the correct first name? There are no marriage records for an Augustin Lambert with a mother named Antoinette either.

 

 

Looking at Gervais Lambert records he married a Madeleine Lamy 02 October 1775 Yamachiche, Québec (evidently a cousin of Joseph Lambert's wife). This appears to be the Gervais described as the uncle of Joseph Lambert? His parents are Gervais Lambert and Marie Paul.

 

 

A Gervais Lambert and Marie Paul married in Sorel, Quebec on 20 May 1748 (Gervais occupation was churchwarden). Gervais Lambert's parents are said to be Michel Lambert and Louise Grenier.

The marriage record at the online PRDH for Michel Lambert and Lousie Garnier Grenier states they married in the Chapel of St. Croix, Lotbiniere on 29 November 1708.

To establish a link between my ancestor Joseph Lambert, married to Marie Ferron, I now looked into the possibility that Antoinette wasn't Joseph's mother's name. I found a Joseph Lambert born to Joseph Lambert and Marguerite Lamy. He was born in Louiseville, Quebec on 9 March 1777. Looking for information on his mother I found she was born in Yamachiche where there is indeed a street currently named Lamy.

Joseph's father was born 29 September 1750 in Louiseville, Quebec. He was born to Gervais Lambert and Marie Paul as stated in the marriage record.

To try to find even more circumstantial evidence for a connection between Joseph Lambert and these families I looked at the baptismal records for all of his children. I was interested in the godparents of his children. This paid off because a sister was a godparent. One of the keys to establishing a link to Joseph and Madeinline Lamy was a baptismal record for Marie Felicite Lambert. She was said to be the daughter of Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron, in her baptismal record. Her godmother was Marie Euphrosine Lambert, the record states she is her tante, or Aunt, her husband was recorded as Francois Bourre.

Euphrosine Lambert married Francois Bourre in Louiseville, Quebec on 21 January 1799. Her parents are said to be Joseph Lambert and Madeleine Lamy. This seems to confirm Joseph's mother was Madeleine and not Antoinette, since the baptismal record indicates Marie Euphrosine is his sister. Madeleine died when her son Joseph was about 10 years old. It's possible he didn't know her name, or someone else provided the name Antoinette?  There is more evidence that Joseph was son of Joseph Lambert and Madeleine Lamy. Another child's baptismal record also provides a clue. Tarsile Lambert was another child of Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron. The child's godmother was Marguerite Crevier the second wife of Augustin Lambert. This Augustin was the son of Joseph Lambert and Madeleine Lamy (oddly Tarsile was again baptized a year later? Maybe there was a falling out with Augustin and his wife?)

Here is the marriage record for Augustin Lambert and Madeleine Crevier explaining that he was a widower. His first marriage record states his parents names. Augustin and a Gervais Lambert appear on baptismal certificates for the children of Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron.

How do we further establish a tie with the Lambert family of the Louiseville area, and the family of St-Croix, Lotbinaire? Gervais Lambert and Marie Hus Paul had another son named Eustache Lambert. He was born in 1856 in Louiseville, Quebec. His godfather was Eustache Lambert. I assume this is Gervais' brother? According to the elder Eustache's marriage record his parents were Michel Lambert and Louise Grenier of St. Croix, Quebec.

I feel the circumstantial case for my Joseph Lambert being the son of Joseph Lambert and Madeleine Lamy is strong. The fact his uncle is Gervais Lambert son of Michel Lambert and Louise Lambert is also a strong link. Eustache's marriage record naming St-Croix as his parents place of origin further strengthens the ties.

Taking the family line further we also run into some disagreements with existing compiled genealogies. Joseph Lambert Sr.'s parents would be Michel Lambert and Louise Grenier, as stated on his marriage record. According to Father Ciprien Tanguay, lived 1819-1902, compiler of  "Dictionnaire généalogique des Familles Canadiennes depuis la fondation de la colonie jusqu’à nos jours " a genealogical dictionary of early families, Michel Lambert was the son of Pierre Lambert and Marie LeNormand. This was a guess on Fr. Tanguay's part because the marriage record he would have seen didn't contain the names of Michel's parents. Since then additional research has uncovered a notarial record naming Michel's parents. This is a partial transcription of Michel Lambert and Louise Grenier's marriage contract from Wikitree "Michel Lambert fils de Aubin Lambert et de Elisabeth Aubert ces père et mère habitant Dem(eurant) en pa parr(oisse) de Saint nicollas."

To further prove this line we turn to the marriage record of Aubin Lambert and Elisabeth Aubert. They married 29 September 1670, Quebec.

Aubin Lambert's dit name was Champagne, as stated in the above marriage record. Michel Lambert's dit name was also Champagne as seen in this baptismal document. This is a baptismal record for Michel Lambert and Louise Grenier's daughter Angelique. Michel's dit name is recorded here as Champagne. Further proof that Aubin Lambert dit Champagne is his father.  .

 

The marriage record for Aubin Lambert and Elisabeth Aubert brings me to todays target Parisian ancestor. Elisabeth Aubert's parents parish is recorded as St-Sulpice, Paris. She was not baptized there however. Elisabeth was baptized on 13 April 1648. At that time the new St-Sulpice church was just being built. She was instead baptized at Saint-Jacques-de-la-Boucherie. Only the beautiful tower of that church still stands. The church was built in the 16th Century in the flamboyant gothic style. When I was in Paris a couple weeks ago I didn't realize the church had a family connection. I walked over to the old church tower thinking it would lead to a church. Instead I just found the lone tower standing by itself. It really is beautiful, and towers over the lower buildings in the area, making it easy to spot.

 

 According to some information posted at Wikitree the Aubert family lived on the  Pont au Change near the Conciergerie in Paris. Yes, people actually had houses built on this bridge. A flood wiped out the bridge in the 1600's and it was rebuilt at the expense of the occupants. I assume that is why the names of the occupants are known? I loved spending time looking at the river when I was in Paris. A walk or boat ride along the beautiful Seine is a highlight of a visit to Paris. I suspect the river wasn't very nice when the Aubert family live on that bridge?

In closing godparents names, and Notarial records can resolve problems and fill in gaps in French Canadian Catholic Church records.

Reviewing My French Canadian Research After Visit To France

I visited Paris for the first time in early June of this year. I was primarily there as a tourist sightseeing. I decided to take a look a couple of the churches in Paris with ties to our family. My ancestors Jacques Lussier and Catherine Clerice were from Paris. They migrated to Quebec in the 17th Century. Catherine Clerice was a fille du roi. Filles du roi were single French women imported into Quebec in order to marry. There was a shortage of  marriageable women in New France. Orphans and women with limited opportunities for marriage in France were offered free passage to Quebec.

 

Now that I'm back from France I'm taking another look at the documentary proof I have for my relationship to my Parisian ancestors. Here I begin with Jacques Lussier and Catherine Clerice.

Going over my documentation to prove my relationship with Jacques Lussier and  his wife Catherine Clerice I begin with Aurelie Lambert born 1813 in St-Leon, Quebec.

 I already have firm documentation up until Aurelie. I had difficulty finding her birth record, and just found it recently. I found Aurelie Lambert and Pierre Masson's marriage record many years ago. Pierre Masson and Aurelie Lambert married 7 Jan 1833 in St. Leon, Quebec. According to that record Aurelie's parents were Joseph Lambert and Marie Ferron. This is the beginning of the line leading to Jacques Lussier and Catherine Clerice.

Aurelie's birth record also confirms her parent names, which are the same as her marriage record.

So far so good. We go back another generation by looking for a marriage for Aurelie's parents. There is a surviving marriage record. Even though Quebec has many great surviving Catholic church records sometimes pages are seriously damaged, or are missing. In this case the page is still legible, and hasn't been removed. This record names the parents of Aurelie's mother Marie Ferron. Jospeh Lambert and Marie Ferron married 15 August 1808 in Yamachiche. It's Marie Ferron's mother Therese Noel's line that links to Jacques Lussier and Catherine Clerice.

The next step is to check Marie Ferron's parents marriage record to find the names of her maternal grandparents, which will lead to Jacques and Clerice's line. There is a marriage record for Claude Ferron and Therese Noel still surviving. Claude Ferron and Therese Noel married 30 September 1782 in Yamachiche. Yamachiche, where Aurelie Lambert's parents, and grandparents, married bordered St. Leon. Apparently Aurelie and husband Pierre Masson lived on the border with Yamachiche, in St Leon as there is a street named Rue Du Masson near Yamachiche, and a nearby street in Yamachiche with another family name Lamy.

From here I follow Aurelie Lambert's maternal line grandmother, and Marie Ferron's mother, Therese Noel's line. Here we hit a snag because there are no marriage records for the couple named as Therese's parents? According to the above marriage record her parents were Francois Noel and Agathe Texier. The family couldn't be extended any farther back if not for notarial records. These records fill in the gaps that can occur when the Catholic church records fall short.

  

There is a marriage record for a Francois Midelet and Agathe Tessier, however. This couple married 5 Mar 1764 in Berthier-en-Haut, Quebec, Canada. This parish is 24 miles from Yamachiche. This is the closest match, but a link must be established. Since the French use dit names, which are additions to the family name, Midelet may be a dit name? They were often used to separate family lines. These names could be descriptive of the place of origin in France the person was from, or a personality trait. The dit names can be passed down. A person or family can change their dit name, it isn't fixed. The dit name may also become the family name, then becoming a fixed name. Dit names create confusion when trying to follow someone in documents.

 

 

Midelet may have been a dit name? It appears Francois Noel and Francois Midelet are indeed the same person. A notarial record links Francois Noel, of Yamachiche, and Geneveive Forcier, the mother of Agathe Tessier listed in the marriage record. Later records list Francois Noel dit Breton, so he may have picked up another dit name associated with the place in France he came from. There is only one record in the thousands of pages of records for Quebec with the name Midelet, and that is the marriage record I've referred to. It would appear that was a mistake, a dit name was changed, or there was an intentional effort to mislead? I can't find the Parish he was supposedly from in France either?

 

"In 1765, Geneviève Forcier widow of Ignace Tessier, ratified an agreement with François Noël (who dropped the name of Midelet), a farmer from Yamachiche, husband of Agathe Tessier (National Archives of Quebec in Montreal, notary's office Barthélemy Faribault, April 1765). " French version: "En 1765, Geneviève Forcier veuve d’Ignace Tessier ratifie une convention avec François Noël (qui laisse tomber le nom de Midelet), farinier de Yamachiche, époux d’Agathe Tessier (Archives nationales du Québec à Montréal, greffe du notaire Barthélemy Faribault, 22 avril 1765)." This information regarding a notarial record appears on a website forum called site L'Autochtone de référence en généalogie Amérindienne au Québec.

I can now document the line further. I now need to switch to the paternal line of Agathe Tessier. Her father Ignace Tessier's line links to the Parisian line. I need the marriage record for Ignace Tessier and Genevieve Forcier, parents of Agathe Tessier. There is a marriage record indexed under these names, but the actual record says Pierre Tessier and Genevieve Forcier? Not Ignace. They married married 7 Jan 1732 in Saint Michel, Yamaska, Quebec. The first couple of children born in Yamaska after the marriage have baptismal records with parents named as Pierre Tessier and Genevieve Forcier. The records of  their later children name their parents as Ignace Tessier and Genevieve Forcier. Could be his name was Pierre Ignace Tessier? In many cases I see either of two, or even more names, used interchangeably in the records by many of these early settlers. They can switch between first and middle names in records.

His name is recorded as Ignace Texier in his death record. He died 18 Jan 1764 in Berthier-En-Haut, Quebec, Canada 16 miles from where he married and several children were born. Berthier-En-Haut is the same place where his daughter Agathe Tessier married Francois Midelet Noel.

 

I'm confident that the Pierre Tessier and Genevieve Forcier, as listed in the marriage record, are my ancestors. So now I need to verify Ignace Tessier Sr. and Marguerite Lussier's parents. Lucky there is a marriage record for this couple. They were married 23 May 1703 in Repentigny, Quebec, Canada. Repentigny is closer to Montreal than the other locations mentioned above. Jacque Luissier and Catherine Clarisse are named as parents of Marguerite in a birth record also still surviving. I've now documented the line down to this couple. The names are a better match. No doubts regarding this connection.

 

 

The baptismal certificate for Marguerite seems to state her parents are Jacques Lhussier and Catherine Clerice. Not easy to read.

 

The final record connecting Jacques Lussier and Catherine Clerice to their Paris parishes is their marriage record. It states Jacques' parish was St. Eustache, Paris, and Catherine's family parish was St. Sulpice.

 

I don't have a copy of the notarial record for Francois Noel and Genevieve Forcier. This record is essential to establishing this line. I will enquire into getting a copy of this document if that is possible? If anyone has a copy they would be willing to share I would appreciate it.

Here are the pictures I took of St. Sulpice a parish which several of my ancestors originated from including Catherine Clerice. The current church was being built while Catherine was living in Paris. The only part complete during her time there was a chapel within the church. Catherine left France in 1671 from the port of Dieppe.



This is the oldest part of the church. It was remodeled in the 18th century.

 

St-Eustache Church, the parish of Jacques Lussier, is much older than Ste-Sulpice. Built between 1532 and 1632. Below are some of the pictures I took of the interior.

 

Ste-Eustache photo from creative commons

 

 

 

 

 

Evaluating AncestryDNA Matches

AncestryDNA now has 4 million testers, making their database of testers the largest in the field. The new numbers caused me to think about what this large comparison database has done for my genealogy?

I've written many times about how I work with my DNA results. I've been using segment data to build a chromosome map with "Genome Mate Pro". That got me thinking. Without the segment data what has AncestryDNA provided me with? I have been able to verify my paper trail based on some strong matches at Ancestry. By strong matches I mean they share a substantial amount of DNA.

These days I generally only look at the matches predicted to be 4th cousins or closer. Actually I generally only feel most interested in 3rd or closer. Just out of curiosity. I always hope they might be persuaded to upload elsewhere. It's also interesting to see how we are related. I have no brickwalls in those generations however. Without the segment data they provide nothing of genealogical relevance. So far they've provided me with no additional family information either. Some have had basically no information at all and are adopted, or are estranged from their birth families. Maybe some day someone will come forward with some pictures or additional info?


I received a message from a match that I sent a request to compare with at GEDmatch. I got her reply yesterday. She basically said she was afraid GEDmatch wasn't secure enough. She also said she didn't see any use for segment data. She made connections at AncestryDNA without it. I explained that if your match doesn't have a large family tree you won't know if you are related to that person on more than one family line.


To get a clearer picture regarding what I've gotten and what AncestryDNA, sans segment data, can provide I decided to take a look at how many matches actually have a tree with an ancestral couple related to me. I searched using the hints filter.

Instead of using my results I used my mother's. My father had a great deal of immigrant ancestry, with some French Canadian. I'm related to most French Canadian matches on several lines, making identifying the common DNA ancestors impossible.

First Cousins

None

1rst Cousins once removed

2

2nd Cousins once removed

1

3rd Cousins and once removed

24

4th Cousins and once removed

41

5^th cousins and once removed

20

6^th cousins and once removed

43

 

7^th cousin

1

According to AncestryDNA my mother has four 3rd cousins. Her age probably threw the calculations off. Instead she has 24. Most are once removed, but a few are 3rd cousins.


Taking this a step further how many family lines are represented? Out of the 135 matches that have an ancestral couple matching, 79 are from one family. The Roller/Zirkle family.More than half.





Fifty-six other matches, with matching ancestors, are scattered throughout other families, with Browning the second most represented.


Eve Zirkle was my mother's 3rd great-grandmother, and over half of the Roller/ Zirkle matches appear to descend from her. According to the book "Genetic Genealogy in Practice", by Blaine T. Bettinger and Debbie Parker Wayne, a third great-grandparent could share as much as 3.125%, on average, with you. Looking at my chromosome map it does look like Eve Zirkle shares that amount, or more, with my mother.  Did she get more than the usual amount of DNA from Eve Zirkle, which would account the overwhelming number of matches coming from this family?  Her matches are with both Zirkle, Eve's father, and Roush, Eve's mother's family.


I've marked the Zirkle/Roush matches segments on this map:



To answer the question whether 3rd great-grandmother Eve Zirkle contributed more than the average of 3.125 percent of DNA I needed to see what that amount of sharing would look like in a chromosome browser.. Here is roughly what an around 3.125% share would look like.

If the chromosome lengths are about accurate it does look like my mother may have inherited a little bit more than the average DNA share from her 3rd great-grandmother. The Zirkle and Roush family tended to marry cousins, which could account for more than average amounts of DNA passed down.
What has this demonstrated to me? Zirkle/Roush descendants predominate my match list, and using the shared match feature the Roller/Zirkle, and Zirkle/ Roush, numbers overwhelm all other matches. This is true at the other companies also

 I do believe if AncestryDNA provided a segment data sharing option I could fill in the chromosome map for other family lines, which are less well represented. Without the segment information over 1000 matches aren't connected with any family because they lack large enough trees, or have no trees at all. You can jump to conclusions using the shared match feature, but you never know whether you're related to someone more than once?  Or it's a coincidence you share the same match? A segment map is the only way to confirm which line someone is related on.

Out of the 135 matches, with matching tree ancestors, only about 15 have uploaded to a place where we can compare segments.

During this exercise I did find a couple more matches who have uploaded elsewhere. One of these matches shares two different family lines with me. One being the Zirkle/Roush line. Adding her information to "Genome Mate Pro" I was able to determine she matches through Zirkle/Roush, and not my Browning line.

At this point I continue to check for close matches at AncestryDNA out of curiosity, and in hopes someone may come forward with more information. I also check for my brickwall Campbell line, which so far hasn't produced any results. I keep checking GEDmatch for more AncestryDNA matches. Sadly few AncestryDNA matches upload there, and the ones who do can't be easily found on the AncestryDNA match list. They also often don't have good trees, or any trees posted.


The last point I would like to make is I used the Google chrome extension to come up with the many of the facts I presented. I was able to quickly search my notes, and search for user names.This tool provides better search capabilities than AncestryDNA offers..

MyHeritage DNA: Comparing Longest Segments

I heard some negative reviews regarding MyHeritage DNA. I decided to compare their results with other companies who provide cM  segment numbers. I'm mainly looking at the longest segment here. I should say I haven't purchased a kit. I uploaded my raw data using the free upload offer.

 

•  Here we see a match who shares 16cM's on the longest segment according to Family Tree DNA, and 18.4 according to MyHeritage. According to Family Tree DNA the total cM's shared are 41. According to MyHeritage the total is 39.3 cMs. These are very typical differences between companies and GEDmatch too. 

 

 

•  Here is a comparison of longest segments between MyHeritage and the others:

 

I find the differences in the length of longest segments to be comparable when comparing between any two companies or GEDmatch. I wouldn't hesitate testing with them if they offer a chromosome browser. The only downside to testing with them at this point is a small database to compare with. I have only two pages or match while my mother has five. Hopefully they can attract many more people to test with them?