Understanding the Limitations of Genetically Based Family Trees

(This was written by ChatGPT with a summary I provided)

If you're looking to trace your ancestry, you may have come across two popular models: AncestryDNA ThruLines and 23andMe's Family Tree. Both of these models use DNA testing to generate a family tree, but there are some key differences to keep in mind when using them.

AncestryDNA ThruLines generates a pedigree chart using both family trees posted on their site and DNA matches. However, the relationships shown on the chart are only potential and not guaranteed. You may occasionally find that some of your matches are related to you more than once, and checking shared matches can help to verify the relationships suggested by ThruLines.

On the other hand, 23andMe doesn't use family trees but instead creates a pedigree chart with only the names of matches and possible shared ancestors (actually it doesn't give names only possible locations on the chart for shared ancestors). The individuals are placed on the chart based on their shared DNA and cousin predictions. However, it's important to keep in mind that these generational predictions can be inaccurate, as it's difficult to predict cousin relationships based solely on DNA. Cousins from the same generation can have different amounts of shared DNA, making it challenging to determine their exact relationship.

In conclusion, while genetically based family trees can provide useful information about your ancestry, it's important to be aware of their limitations. It's always a good idea to check shared matches and other sources to verify the relationships suggested by these models. By doing so, you can get a more accurate picture of your ancestry and better understand your family history.

Ask The Magic 8 Ball/ or ChatGPT for Genealogy

 

I really enjoyed playing with the Magic 8 Ball as a child. Who knew a better question and answer tool would come along in my future. The Magic 8 Ball never told me about it.

The now available to the public ChatGPT is a chatbot trained using artificial intelligence to answer questions and carry on a conversation that you initiate.

What I like most about it is the back and forth chat encourages different ways of thinking and approaching a problem you may not have thought of. It can present ideas you never considered. The biggest problem is the information may not always be correct. You can actually redirect the chat in the right direction by entering the corrected information in the chat.

I've asked some genealogy/family history questions to see what this chatbot came up with.

The origin of unusual surnames in our family has always been a source of discussion. The origin of my mother's maiden name, Forgey, has been a subject of debate. Some thought it seemed French and others Scottish. We have a Forgey group on Facebook and a DNA project that points to Scottish origins.

ChatGPT initially said it is English. I think there may have been a Forgey in ancient English records. That person's name likely had a different derivation or the name was spelled phonetically and never was actually Forgey. Our family's name appears to come from a Scots-Irish immigrant to colonial America. It also appears it is a variant of the surname Ferguson.




I corrected the chatbot by replying the name Forgey was most common in Ireland and appears to be derived from the surname Forgie, a variant of the surname Ferguson. Now the chat suggests these names go back to a Gaelic word, "Fearchar" meaning "beloved friend" or "dead man" in Gaelic.





The fact my great-grandmother Mary Kurta Kappel's maiden name is also used in Ukraine is something I forgot or never knew about? Bringing that to my attention was interesting. I verified that there are Kurtas in Ukraine by Googling.



I also asked about areas my family came from to get a history of the areas. What came back for Güssing, Austria had a glaring inaccuracy. It stated many people were sent to concentration camps from there. I wasn't aware that large numbers of people were sent to concentration camps from there. I did some research and according to Yad Vashem the Jews had been expelled from Güssing, and all of Burgenland, in 1938. There were  either attempts to send them to neighboring countries, or Palestine. Many could not get out and ended up in Vienna. Anyone who ended up in German occupied territory eventually ended up in Ghettos or concentration camps. They generally didn't go directly from Güssing or Burgenland, however. It took a few years before the process known as "the final solution" began.




I don't like the impression that Güssing residents were taken out of their homes and sent directly to concentration camps because this appears to be historically inaccurate. There likely were a few people living in Güssing who were sent directly to the concentration camps because of their political views and for openly criticizing the Nazis. Generally they were relocated and later sent to the camps.


I attempted to correct this information with information from a Yad Vashem study regarding the Jews of Burgenland, Austria. According to Adolf Eichmann there were no more Jewish communities in Burgenland in late 1938. The Jewish population had been forcibly removed. I don't feel completely satisfied with the answer, but it's close enough to the truth.

I also asked about the origins of my family's DNA haplogroups. I do believe our surname Kapple, Koppel in the old country, has Ashkenazi origins. As the chatbot states many Jewish men are in the J-170 Y DNA haplogroup.




I asked about the persecution of the Irish by the English and it gave a very good summary of that.





I also asked how artificial intelligence can be used to further genealogy research?





Generating new ideas and questions is a good thing. Just use ChatGPT with caution and verify the information. The information isn't sourced so you must find the source which is a good way to learn more about what you are researching. Think of it like you are chatting with a person. They aren't giving you sources. You're just chatting.

 

A Review of My Family History Progress 25 Years after Starting/ 12 years Blogging

Kappel Family Questions and Answers

Questions: Were the Kapple/Kappel's ethnically Jewish and where were they from in the old country? 

My number one goal when I started my genealogy research 25 years ago was to find the origins of our Kapple or Kappel surname. Since my grandparents Rudolph Kapple and Dorothy Mason-Kapple divorced and my grandmother moved to California, and my grandfather did not, my family had very little information about the Kappel family. There was some speculation that the Kappel’s were ethnically Jewish. I wanted to verify whether or not they were Jewish. According to several sources the surname Kappel can be Ashkenazi.

From "Jewish Family Names and Their Origins
An Etymological Dictionary
By Heinrich Walter Guggenheimer, Eva H. Guggenheimer · 1992
 
The only document about the origins of the Kappel family was my grandfather Rudolph Kapple’s death certificate my family had since his death in the 1970s. It stated he was born in Australia so for a long time I was thinking about starting my research there.

 

For many years I didn’t have time to pursue our family history. I asked my family repeatedly over the years about the origins of the Kappel family. My grandmother decided to write to family in Chicago and ask about where her ex-husband was born. She learned he was actually born in Graz, Austria, not Australia. I was fascinated by that. The possibility of Jewish origins was not denied or confirmed by the family in Chicago.

Since the family was said to have been from Austria I wondered what happened to relatives during WWII. How did the Holocaust affect our family? Since the name Kappel can be Ashkenazi were they placed in concentration camps?

I began my research in 1998 by visiting a Family History Center for the first time. This initial visit didn’t produce any additional information. I did come away with some suggestions regarding what records might contain the information I was looking for. It took me a few months to learn more about the family. I also checked many books out of several libraries on how to do genealogy research. The book “My Sixteen : A Self-Help Guide to Finding Your Sixteen Great-Great Grandparents” by Robert Marlin was the most helpful describing how to research more recent immigrants. I went out to the Central Library in Los Angeles and viewed my first census record on microfilm. I had to use a soundex reel , which is an index to the films. At that point I discovered my great-grandparents spelled their name Kappel, and not Kapple like my grandparents. My grandfather was confirmed to have been born in Austria.

This is the 1920 Census for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. That was the most recent census available at the time

After researching census records, I searched indexes for naturalization records, also on microfilm. I ordered copies of my great-grandparents' naturalization records from several court systems. From those records I discovered exactly where the family came from. They actually came from Inzenhof, Burgenland, Austria. 

My grandfather was not born in Inzenhof, Austria. Where he was born continued to be a mystery for over a decade. Passenger lists, and his mother's naturalization, stated he was born in Hort, Austria. I was never able to identify this place until recently, when civil registration and Austrian church records became available online. He was born in an area where his aunt Rosalia lived. His mother was visiting relatives in Hart, Austria when he was born, as I discovered in church and civil registration records. Hart is in Styria, Austria not far from Graz where Chicago relatives said he was born. 

 

It was a part of Hungary before WWI. I then began researching Burgenland on the internet and found a group called The Burgenland Bunch was doing extensive research on families in Burgenland and research on the history of the area.

The goal of learning about where my family was from was reached. I was able to even visit the area in 2018. Doing research in church and civil registration records for Burgenalnd, Austria I also discovered the family was Catholic for generations. The name was actually spelled Köppel in the old records. Looking at the local war memorial I found family surnames, which points to the fact the family fought on the German side in WWII.

Over a decade passed before I was able to begin DNA testing. I was able to start DNA testing in 2013 when this testing became more affordable. 

Autosomal DNA testing suggests the Kappel/Köppel side of my family is an ethnic mixture of Germanic and Eastern European with a trace amount of Jewish Ancestry.

 

The Kappel male haplogroup is J2 or J-172 Haplogroup may also point to possible Jewish roots on the paternal direct line.

A nephew of my great-grandmother Mary Kurta-Kappel died while serving in WWII on the German side in Finland.

The death of Mary's nephew Joseph during WWII in Finland is recorded in the church book for Hart. 

After researching the family for years I wanted to see pictures of my great-grandparents and their family. My family didn’t have any photos of Frank Kappel and Mary Kurta. I reached my goal too.

Answers to questions: They were mixed ethnically with likely some Jewish ancestry far back in time. They were from Inzenhof in today's Austria. My grandfather Rudolph was born in Sytria, Austria while his mother was visiting family. 

Forgey Questions and Answers

Questions: What was the origin of the Forgey surname and what did Isis Browning-Forgey die of? 

After my success with the Kappel family I decided to research the origins of the unusual surname Forgey. A distant cousin wrote a book about the family which another cousin sent us. He came to the conclusion the surname was French. There had been a debate in the family about whether the name was Scottish or French. My grandfather thought it was Scottish, which I always went with.

Y-DNA testing seems to confirm Scottish origins of the direct male Forgey line with no French matches and many Scottish and Scots-Irish matches. The name likely is a variant of the surname Ferguson. Fergie is a nickname for the surname Ferguson. In Scotland the surname Forgey is generally spelled Forgie. One of the Forgey Y earliest matches was a man with the surname Forgie.

 

Our Forgey family is now in the Big Y Project at Family tree DNA and we have our own SNP I-BY19896 for our Forgey family.

Another mystery for my family on the Forgey side was regarding the death of my great -grandmother Isis Browning-Forgey. She died in her 30s when her children were young. My grandfather never talked about the cause of her death. My mother thought maybe it was due to childbirth. I ordered her death certificate and it turned out she died of Tuberculosis.

Answers: The surname Forgey appears to be a variant of the surname Ferguson and the family had Scottish and Scots-Irish roots. Isis Browning-Forgey died of Tuberculosis. 

Mason Question and Answer

Question: Where did the Mason family live before they lived in Chicago, Illinois? 

I was also looking into my grandmother’s Mason line. I had asked my grandmother if the Mason’s always lived in Chicago. She said they didn’t but didn’t say where else they lived? Doing research on this line I found out they actually lived in Mattoon, Illinois before moving to Chicago in the early 1900s. I was told the Mason’s were originally from Quebec, Canada. I was surprised my grandmother’s paternal grandmother’s surname was Owens. Mary E. Owens was born in Ohio. I decided to do some research on her family. I didn’t know until then that my father had any ancestry going back to colonial America until researching the Owens family. I thought they all immigrated to the United States in the 19th Century.

Mary E. Owens' family turned out to be very fascinating going back to John Owens who was an Indian trader in Pennsylvania.

Answer: They lived in Mattoon County, Illinois before Chicago. The Mason line went back to Quebec, Canada and the Owens line traced back to Ohio, Kentucky, and colonial Pennsylvania. The Owens family may have originally come from Ireland? 

Del Castillo Questions and Answers

Questions: was my great-grandfather Nicasio del Castillo a lawyer in Nicaragua? Was a cousin of my grandmother Graciela del Castillo a diplomat and did live in France and Beverly Hills California? How did Isis Forgey, granddaughter of Isis, die? 

 

My mother said her grandfather was a lawyer in Nicaragua and a cousin was a diplomat who traveled extensively and lived for a time in France. I wanted to verify that information.

My family called one of my grandmother Graciela del Castillo's cousin's padrino, or godfather. He was actually a cousin of my grandmother, according to a will she wrote. His name was Francisco Alvarado. My mother said he had a ranch in his native Nicaragua, but also lived in France and Beverly Hills, California. I was able to confirm all of the information she told me, except one piece of information. 

Below is a collection of passenger list information. He is listed as a Consul in these records. He does make a number of trips to Nice, France where he met his wife. 

I was able to find Francisco Alvarado in the 1950 Census where he is listed as living in Beverly Hills, which answers that question. 

My mother said Francisco also met with FDR. I have not been able to verify that. 

From the Census for Granada, Nicaragua and Civil Registration records I confirmed the del Castillo family was indeed involved in the legal profession for generations. In 1882 it looks like Nicasio del Castillo was training to become an attorney like his father Francisco del Castillo. Nicasio is listed as a clerk and later meets qualifications for his career. 

Below we see Nicasio's father is described as a notary and attorney. 

My maternal grandparents Charles Forgey and Graciela del Castillo lost a daughter named after her paternal grandmother in Nicaragua. Their daughter Isis Forgey died as an infant of a gastro-intestinal disorder. My mother had thought she died of a broken neck. The family had a photo taken of her after she died and maybe her head slumped to one side?

Answers: Francisco del Castillo was a consul in France. It appears he also lived in Beverly Hills. The del Castillo family was involved in the legal system in Nicaragua for several generations. My maternal grandparents daughter Isis Forgey died of a gastro-intestinal disorder in Managua, Nicaragua. 

Mullen/Huvane

Question: What was the origin of the surname Huvane and where did the Mullen/Huvane family live in Galway, Ireland?

After the death of my great-great aunt Sister Mary Kathleen (Bridget Mullen) I learned more about the Irish side of my paternal grandmother’s family in the early 1900s. My father said my great-grandmother came from Cork, Ireland. I learned from the funeral service for Sister Mary Kathleen that the family was from Galway. I also learned the maiden name of my great-great grandmother was Huvane. Huvane being an unusual name I decided to research that name. I wasn’t sure if that name was even spelled correctly?

It wasn’t until I began the Kappel research and began using the internet that I Googled Huvane and discovered that yes there was such a name, it was Irish, and there were people by this surname living in the United States. I contacted someone doing research on the family and learned more about the possible origins of the surname. According to an Irish Family History Center specialist the name is a variant of the surname Hoban. Our family had thought the name may have been Spanish, going back to the Armada.

Since the surname Huvane, most often spelled Huane in Ireland, is an uncommon surname I was able to easily find the marriage record for my great-great grandparents Patrick Mullen and Mary Huane. The townland they lived in was recorded on their marriage record. Using Griffiths Valuation I was able to locate their land. I’ve visited their townland Pollaturick in 2019.

Answers: Huvane/Huane is likely a variant of the surname Hoban and is an Irish surname and this surname is found in southern Co. Mayo, Ireland. My great-great grandparents lived in Pollaturick, Milltown, Tuam, Co. Galway, Ireland. 
 

Questions that still need answers:

1. Who were the parents of Sarah Campbell-Wray. 
2. DNA Y testing needed to verify Browning line back to Maryland.
3. The 1926 Census for Ireland could answer some questions such as how many houses were on the lot the Mullens lived on, and what happened to Winifred Mullen the sister of my great-grandmother Mary Mullen-Mason?
4. I hope more family photos surface.
5. How did Fred Mason and Helen Mullen-Mason's son suffer burns leading to his death? 

As you can see I was only able to answer some of my questions when documents became available online and DNA testing became available. Sometimes it takes years to answer questions for reasons such as documents previously unknown surface. Also some records are only released for view after a certain number of years pass, such as the census. Researching Family History used to be a long, difficult process but it's getting easier, faster, and cheaper to research family history now because so many records are now online. 

Also, I wouldn't have been able to answer the questions my family had about our family without the help of other people. A big key to unlocking the answers has been collaborating with other researchers, and learning research techniques from them.