A Y-DNA Test Revealed An Unknown Problem then Solved it

The beginning of this journey

This story begins with a book written about our Forgey/Forgy family written in the 1950's called "A Genealogical History of Forgy, Forgey and Forgie in America" . In that book the author Lucille Forgy Wallace speculated whether all of the early families coming to America were related?  In 1958 there was no way to prove this because no documents survive that would prove or disprove a relationship. All of these families came to America in the 18th century. They were ethically Scottish but many of them came from Northern Ireland. Since all of these families were coming from the British empire there are no passenger lists to even trace these families back to a specific place, which might prove a relationship.

From Lucille Forgy Wallace's book

One of the goals of our Forgey/Forgy & Forgie DNA project at Family Tree DNA has been to test the hypothesis that all families carrying these names are related? A distant cousin of mine with the surname Forgey was the first to test for our group. That was back in 2011. His first match with a related surname was a Forgie. This match was a mismatch by 3 markers on 37 markers. Mismatching by this many markers does prove a relation, but that relationship would be quite distant going back to Ulster, Ireland or Scotland?

Initially having only one surname related match I checked the Y-Search and noticed there was another Forgy male in that database but that man had a different haplogroup. My distant cousin's haplogroup was I- M223 and the Forgy at Y-Search was in a different I-M253 haplogroup. I felt like maybe we were seeing proof all Forgey/Forgys weren't related? According to an Irish surname study and Lucille Wallace's book the Forgey/Forgy and Forgie surnames are variants of Ferguson. There are different unrelated Ferguson lines so it's possible all people with the surname Forgey etc. aren't related either.

My Uncle later tested and matched our first tester and distant cousin on 37 markers. They mismatched each other by 1 marker on 37 markers. They are now both in the Big Y project at Family Tree DNA, and they now have their own SNP named I-BY19896 which is hundreds of years younger than our previous SNP prediction. So we are confident that all of the Forgey/Forgys that headed south from Pennsylvania to initially settle Tennessee, along with the border area of Virginia, and North Carolina are all related.

Discovering a different haplogroup and possible different unrelated family line led me to seek out more people descended from that line to confirm there was another haplogroup and not an NPE.

A Surprising Thing Happened

It took me a few years to find another person in that line to test. In 2014 another male in the Robert Forgy DNA line tested. A surprising thing happened when his test results came in. He didn't match his distant cousin, who was a 5th cousin on paper, or anyone in our Forgey group which had now grown larger. Most testers matched the I-M223 haplogroup. This man was in a R haplogroup. Now we had two distant cousins who didn't match anyone? Did both of these lines have NPE's or just one? We needed more testers to find out.

Six years later

Fast forward 6 years later we had someone in another line which had not tested join our group. He was from the Hugh Forgey Revolutionary War veteran line. He turned out to be from the very common R-M269 haplogroup also. He had many pages of matches. One of his 12 marker matches turned out to be our R-M269 match that didn't match his cousin or anyone else. Our previous Robert Forgy descendant was only tested on 12 markers. These two men were perfect matches on 12 markers. With such a common haplogroup this could be a coincidental match? The 12 marker test needed to be upgraded to at least 37 markers, which we did.

Last Friday the upgraded results came in and these two men still match on 37 markers. I'm confident now there is a different haplogroup shared by those with these shared surnames. The I-M253 haplogroup could unfortunately be an NPE?

Our two R-M269 haplogroup matches mismatched by 2 markers on 37 markers. Our more distantly related testers tend to mismatch by two markers on 37 markers. There definitely isn't a close relationship between these two cousins. The relationship could be 300 or more years ago.

Does this prove that all Forgey/Forgys were never related? It certainly could be there was a line break hundreds of years ago resulting in different male haplogroups? Both of the R haplogroup men do match a Ferguson so it is possible that their surname comes from a different Ferguson line. We do now know there were two different male lines going back hundreds of years that aren't related. So it appears that all of the men that originally came to America were not related through the male line.

As more people from different surname lines test we might solve more mysteries and find more haplogroups. We may solve problems and find new problems to solve. DNA is always unpredictable.

All Forgey/Forgy or Forgies who have tested at Family Tree DNA are invited to join our project

Never Give Up/ A lesson from my Nicaraguan Research

I began my Nicaraguan family history research in 1999. I wasn't sure how to approach it at all before I had access to the internet in the early 2000's. I found a LDS Family History Library outline for Nicaraguan research posted online which laid out the record types and information they provided listed. According to the online church records went back the farthest, but I didn't know which parishes my family may have belonged to? I asked my mother and she said she provided her baptismal information to the parish church she married in here in California. I called that parish and they told me she was baptized at Nuestra Mercedes Church in Granada, Nicaragua, but they didn't have a copy of that document anymore. I was able to find a photo online of the church. After seeing what the old church looked like, and discovering the history of that parish went back to the late 1500's I really wanted to know how long our family belonged to that parish.

The only information on my Grandmother Graciela Del Castillo's family came from her death certificate which stated she was born in Granada, Nicaragua in 1893, and her parents' names were Nicasio Del Castillo and Elena Garcia. My mother had no other information. She said her grandfather Nicasio was a lawyer in Nicaragua. My mother was brought to America at age 3. She couldn't remember much about Nicaragua other than she rode a donkey and monkeys threw twigs at the family as they made there way to a ship that brought them to the United States.

Where My Family Journey Started

My journey to acquire more information from Nicaragua started in earnest in 2002 when I began writing to Nuestra Mercedes church and the civil registration office in Granada, Nicaragua.

I sent $10 for a search of the record books index of Nuestra Mercedes church for the marriage and birth records for the birth of my grandmother Graciela Del Castillo, and marriage of her parents Nicasio Del Castillo and Elena Garcia. I had no idea when my great-grandparents married but my mother said she believed my grandmother was illegitimate. I inferred that maybe they married soon after she was born. I had a date and year for my grandmother's birth. This search produced no results. I thought maybe my grandmother's family belonged to a different parish?

The Priest suggested I contact the archdiocese office, which I also did with no response at all.

I wrote a letter to the Civil Registration office in August of 2003 requesting a search for the marriage record of my great-grandparents Nicasio Del Castillo and Elena Garcia. No response at all either.

Someone also working on Nicaraguan genealogy told me the only way to get searches for certificates would be to go to the office in person. Since I could not do this myself and didn't know of any family still living in Nicaragua I decided to contact the US Embassy in Managua and ask for their help. They told me to fax the civil registration office in Granada and they gave me their fax number and I faxed them in 2004. This produced no results because my friend the Nicaraguan researcher was right. Another person told me that office doesn't respond to mail requests, only in person requests. 

In 2005 I wrote to the parish where my mother Edna Forgey-Kapple was baptized again. According to the church where she was married Nuestra Mercedes was the church she was baptized in. I thought maybe a relative might have been listed on this record which may have furthered my research. This time I received no response at all from them, unlike in 2002. 

I was 0 for 5 when it came to my search requests in Nicaragua. I continued my research off and on through Google searches on my names and searches for records online. I also posted on genealogy message boards for Nicaragua. I received a response from someone who had information on my grandmother Graciela's siblings, their children, and spouses (you can read the response I received here at Boletin de Genealogia) . 

When the Managua, Nicaragua civil registration records came online I was able to find some of my family's documents because my grandfather Charles Forgey was stationed in Managua as a US Marine. This information didn't take me any farther back because my grandmother's family lived in Granada likely for centuries. 

In 2015 a fellow researcher, and DNA match, contacted me and encouraged me to go out to Nicaragua where he said there was an archive that had census records for Granada which would at least take my family back another generation. Many records were lost when American slaveholders from Tennessee overthrew the Nicaraguan government in the 1850's hoping to establish a slave owning country for US slave owners. 

My Nicaraguan fellow researcher said Nicaragua was generally as safe as anywhere in the United States. I decided to take his advice travel there, which I did in December of 2015. I was able to review the Census for Granada, Nicaragua for 1882 when my great-grandfather Nicasio Del Castillo was 16 years old. He was living with both of his parents and siblings in the parish of Nuestra Mercedes or La Merced. I was not only able to add my great-great-grandparents Francisco Del Castillo and Alejandra Granizo, but I also was able to identify my 3 times great-grandfather also named Nicasio Del Castillo. I found the elder Nicasico in the census records and the many other records held by this wonderful archive. The staff was extremely helpful finding references for me. 

I actually visited Nicaragua in December of 2015 and 2016. Unfortunately the civil registration office was closed both years for the Christmas holidays. The church offices were also closed the weeks I was there. 

Someone not long ago contacted me stating they found the death certificate for Elena Garcia which stated she was the illegitimate daughter of Andrea Garcia. The death certificate also implied she never married the father of her children because it listed her as single. It then occurred to me that was why no records of marriage were found. 

FamilySearch Images

Last week I discovered the wonderful Familysearch Images page which seems to have some images not yet in the catalog where I usually access them (it could be they are cataloged in a place I haven't searched?). The Granada, Nicaragua records are also in the catalog where they are easier to search with better descriptions. . 

I had been searching for Granada, Nicaragua church microfilms and digital images for years off and on. This feature, which was new to me, encouraged me to try again. I had immediate success when searching my research area. I found church and civil registers were available. I had no idea these images were now available online. 

Since I have time on my hands while staying at home social distancing for COVID-19 I've been searching these book images nonstop for 2 weeks. It's really paid off. I've found images for all of the records I began asking for in 2002. It's unbelievable because I never thought I would ever see them. I heard local officials were against providing these records online. 

The first record I discovered was my grandmother's baptismal record in the archdiocese book for 1893. I knew she was born on 10 September so I was able to find the record quickly. I found out she was baptized as Lucrecia (her middle name) Garcia confirming she was illegitimate. There are indexes for baptisms making finding these records easy. 

I then was able to find her civil registration record. Her birth was registered by Nicasio Del Castillo which supports his paternity. The civil registration records listed her as Lucrecia Del Carmen Garcia.

My mother's entire family called Francisco Alvarado "Padrino". I had thought that was just a nickname the family used for him. I discovered from this, above, birth record  that Francisco was my grandmother's godfather. I didn't think he would be because he was about 17 when she was born. I've since discovered that anyone at least 16 years of age is eligible to be a godparent. In the will my grandmother Graciela wrote in 1956 she does write Mr. Albarado "mi padrino". 

Obviously since neither record lists a Graciela my requests for her birth information would have produced no results. 

I was able to find my mother's baptismal record and her name was correctly written in both the index and records. I was happy to learn the names of my mother's godparent. 

There are church baptism records going back to 1856. Civil registration records only go back to 1879. 

I was able to find my great-grandfather Nicasio Del Castillo in the baptismal index (which is an individual volume, you have to then find the book for that time period). I knew he was born about 1866 from the census. I searched a book for that time period and oddly he wasn't in that book? Sometimes there are several books for the same time period, which I discovered, he did appear in the second book also covering that time period. 

I was so happy to have a birth record confirming what I found on the census. 

I didn't know when Nicasio Del Castillo died, and there are no indexes for church or civil death records. Finding this record required searching pages of the easier to search church records books which covered the years 1904-1929. I knew he died after 1919 because I was told he wrote a poem for my grandparents' marriage that year. I also figured he probably died before 1925 when my family came to California because something seemed to happen to reverse the family's financial fortunes in Nicaragua? I decided to begin my search after my grandparents' marriage in 1919. After going through a number of pages I did find his death record in 1921. 

The church death record gave the correct approximate age for my great-grandfather Nicasio. Oddly it stated he was married to Elena Garcia which the children's birth records don't support?

I was then able to easily find Nicasio's civil death record in the un-indexed records for 1921. His son Samuel Del Castillo reported the death. Apparently he didn't have much family history information. It appears later someone added Nicasio's parents' names. It does appear that the clerk added this information around the same time judging by the handwriting and ink use. Elena Garcia is named as his wife again although I have been searching the marriage books and can find no marriage. 

Children born to Elena Garcia, registered by Nicasio Del Castillo, are all illegitimate. Rudolfo Del Castillo appears to be the last child born to Nicasio and Elena. He would have been 13 years younger than my grandmother. This child is registered with the local government by Nicasio in 1907. He was said to be the illegitimate child of Elena Garcia according to this record.

My grandmother's older brother Alberto Del Castillo claimed, according to his marriage record, that he was the legitimate child of Nicasio and Elena. My grandmother didn't know she was illegitimate until she was an adult and she asked her godfather, and cousin, Francisco Alvarado to confirm that. 

Reading through the records I'm wondering if there was some impediment which prevented them from marrying? In one of the books recording illegitimate children later recognized by fathers someone said they were not allowed to contract a marriage which prevented them from marrying the mother of their children. I don't know if there were laws regarding race, or laws that prevented cousin marriage? The records sometimes raise new questions.  

I knew from my previous archival research in Granada, Nicaragua that my great-great-great grandfather Nicasio Del Castillo died in 1884. Thankfully I didn't have to page through many pages for that year before finding his death record. The record stated he was a notary, which in Nicaragua is the equivalent of a lawyer in this country. He was said to be the legitimate child of Nicasio Del Castillo and Flora Lacayo. Two names I have added to my tree. 

I had absolutely no idea when my great-great grandfather Francisco Del Castillo died? He would have been born about 1840. No books survive for that time period. The death record would have been my best source for further confirmation of his parentage. When I searched the church records I found that his daughters Adela and Flora both died within a month of one another in 1919. The death records stated both parents were dead. Both parents were alive in 1882 I knew from the census. I did a page by page search for a death record, and any interesting information in the death records books beginning in 1882. Church records produced no information so I had to turn to the more voluminous civil registration records. 

It took me days to search the civil registration. I did find a death record for my great-great grandmother Alejandra Granzio the wife of Francisco. I have still found no death record for him and 3 volumes of death records are missing, and he likely died in a year covered by one of those books.   

According to  my great-great grandmother's death record her father's name was Marcelino Granizo. Her mother's name appears to be Gentas? I couldn't make out her last name. 

I decided next to look for records for the parents of my great-great grandmother Alejandra Granizo. The surname Granizo was very rare in Nicaragua and Spain. I love rare surnames because they don't require as much effort to research. I paged through death records because Alejandra would have been born in the 1840's and no books survive from before 1856. I began with the earliest records looking for all my family names, and for anything interesting. I noticed at the end of every year death statistics were recorded regarding the number of deaths and cause of deaths, which was interesting. 

I found a death record for Alejandra's possible mother, but her name didn't match the name on her death record? A Pia Gutierrez was said to be the widow of Marcelino Granizo according to this death record. She died in 1866 at age 60. I didn't find a death record for Marcelino so I assume he died much earlier. 

I had thought that Pia could have been Alejandra's step-mother. Going through the death records some more I found a death record for a likely brother of Alejandra. Vicente Granizo's death record says he was also the son of a Marcelino Granizo. He died in 1883 at the age of 44. If his age is correct he would have been older than his sister Alejandra. His record states his mother was Pia Fernandez. Did Marcelino marry a Pia Fernandez then a Pia Gutierrez? Possible, but I believe the informants of both deaths didn't remember the exact names of the decedents parents. They had a vague recollection the surname was a name ending in ez. My DNA results point to a relationship with a Gutierrez Nicaraguan family so I'm assuming for now that Alejandra's mother was Pia Gutierrez.   

Reading through all of the records I'm so happy to see that my ancestors were educated people. I'm happy they had an opportunity to learn to read, and write and follow a course of study in the legal profession. Below my great-grandfather Francisco Del Castillo is described as a Lawyer and Notary. 

My mother always said that she was sorry I never met Francisco "Padrino" Alvarado. Since I'm interested in trying to learn languages and love to travel we would have had a lot in common. I'm sorry I never met him also. She said he had a trunk that he traveled with that had stickers from all over the world. I'm sorry I was never able to meet my Del Castillo ancestors too. Their love of music and poetry would be something shared in common with me; and I'm sure we would have had much to talk about. Finally getting to see more of their records and seeing examples of their handwriting has been rewarding. If some photos surfaced of them that would be wonderful. However I'm satisfied for now anyway.